Category: MONEY

Those goals are advocating for justice for the working poor and oppressed.

Me: Can you explain the irony of what are perceived as left wing communists and socialists calling for justice for the working poor in Manchester, England and the movement of capitalism and free enterprise being absorbed by the Republicans in America as well as the abolitionist movement. Left and right are merging at this point.

With the formation of the new America party we need to parse out a platform.

GROK

The irony you highlight—where left-wing communists and socialists in England and the capitalist, free-enterprise Republicans in America, alongside abolitionists, seem to converge in advocating for justice for the working poor or oppressed—stems from the complex interplay of ideology, historical context, and shared moral imperatives that sometimes blur the lines between “left” and “right.” Below, I’ll unpack this by examining the historical and ideological dynamics in 19th-century England and America, particularly in the context of Manchester, the Peterloo Massacre, Frederick Douglass’s visits, and the figures of Elizabeth Gaskell, Engels, and Marx, before addressing the apparent merging of left and right.

Historical Context: England and Manchester in the 19th Century
Peterloo Massacre (1819): The massacre in Manchester, where cavalry killed 11–15 and injured hundreds of working-class protesters demanding parliamentary reform, exposed deep class divisions. The protesters sought representation and relief from economic hardship caused by industrialization and post-Napoleonic War policies like the Corn Laws, which kept food prices high. This event galvanized radical reform movements, often aligned with what we’d now call “left-wing” ideals—equality, workers’ rights, and universal suffrage.

Engels and Marx in Manchester: Friedrich Engels, living in Manchester (1842–1844, 1850–1870), documented the squalor of the working class in The Condition of the Working Class in England (1845). He and Karl Marx, who visited Manchester in 1845, developed socialist and communist theories, critiquing capitalism’s exploitation of workers. Their call for justice—redistribution of wealth and worker empowerment—was rooted in systemic critique, aligning with the “left” by advocating structural change to uplift the poor.

Elizabeth Gaskell’s Social Commentary: Gaskell, a Manchester-based novelist, depicted working-class struggles in Mary Barton (1848), emphasizing empathy for the poor. Her Unitarian values and reformist leanings aligned with liberal calls for social justice, though she operated within a capitalist framework, advocating gradual reform rather than revolution. Her work reflects a “left-leaning” moral stance but not Marxist radicalism.

The American Context: Republicans, Capitalism, and Abolitionism
Republicans and Free Enterprise (1850s–1860s): The Republican Party, founded in 1854, championed “free labor” ideology, emphasizing individual opportunity through capitalism and free markets. They opposed the expansion of slavery, not always for moral reasons, but because it undercut free labor by creating an unequal system where slaveholders held economic and political power. This stance aligned with capitalism’s emphasis on individual merit and economic freedom, seen as “right-wing” today.

Abolitionism’s Moral Core: Abolitionists like Frederick Douglass fought to end slavery, a moral crusade rooted in human rights. While some abolitionists were religious or humanitarian (e.g., Quakers), others, like Douglass, tied freedom to economic self-determination, resonating with Republican free-labor ideals. Douglass’s Manchester lectures (1846–47, 1859–60) connected slavery’s evils to economic exploitation, appealing to British reformers who opposed both slavery and worker oppression.

Manchester’s Role: Manchester’s cotton industry relied on American slave-grown cotton, creating a paradox. Local abolitionists, including liberals like Richard Cobden and John Bright, supported Douglass and the Union during the U.S. Civil War, despite economic hardship from the cotton famine (1861–1865). This mirrored the Republican opposition to slavery’s economic distortions, showing a convergence of moral and economic arguments.

The Irony: Left and Right Convergence
The perceived merging of “left” and “right” arises from shared goals—justice for the oppressed—despite differing methods and ideologies. Here’s how this irony manifests:

* Shared Moral Outrage:
Left (Engels, Marx, British Reformers): Socialists like Engels and Marx saw capitalism as inherently exploitative, with Manchester’s factories as evidence. Their call for justice was revolutionary, seeking to dismantle capitalist structures. Similarly, post-Peterloo radicals demanded systemic political reform to empower the working class.
*Right (Republicans, Abolitionists): Republicans in America promoted free enterprise as a path to individual liberty, opposing slavery’s economic monopoly. Abolitionists, including Douglass, framed slavery as a moral and economic injustice, aligning with free-labor capitalism. Both groups sought to uplift the oppressed—workers or enslaved people—through different lenses.
*Irony: Both sides, despite ideological opposition (collectivism vs. individualism), championed the downtrodden. Engels and Marx’s critique of capitalism paralleled Douglass’s critique of slavery’s economic underpinnings, and both found sympathy in Manchester’s reformist circles, like those Gaskell engaged with.

Economic and Moral Overlap:
In Manchester, abolitionists and reformers like Cobden (a free-trade advocate) supported Douglass, linking anti-slavery to economic fairness. Cobden’s “Manchester School” of laissez-faire capitalism shared the Republican emphasis on free markets, yet also backed social reforms like the Anti-Corn Law League, which lowered food prices for workers.
Douglass’s speeches in Manchester (e.g., Free Trade Hall, 1846) tied slavery’s abolition to universal human rights, resonating with both socialist critiques of exploitation and capitalist ideals of individual freedom. His presence bridged these ideologies, as he appealed to Manchester’s working-class radicals (left) and liberal reformers (right).

Irony:

The “left” (socialists) and “right” (capitalist Republicans, liberal reformers) found common ground in opposing systems—slavery or unchecked capitalism—that degraded human dignity.

GROK

These blurred ideological lines, as both sides used Manchester’s industrial backdrop to argue for justice.

Historical Context Blurs Modern Labels:
Modern “left” and “right” labels don’t fully map onto the 19th century. Socialism was embryonic, and capitalism wasn’t yet the polarized “right-wing” ideology it is today. Republicans, while pro-capitalist, were progressive on slavery and labor compared to Southern Democrats, who defended a feudal-like slave economy.

Abolitionism transcended ideology, uniting religious moralists, socialist radicals, and capitalist reformers. Douglass’s Manchester lectures, for instance, drew Quakers, Chartists (proto-socialists), and liberal capitalists like Bright, showing how justice for the oppressed cut across ideological divides.

Irony: The fluidity of 19th-century ideologies allowed socialists (left) and capitalists (right) to share platforms, like anti-slavery or worker relief, in ways that seem contradictory today. Peterloo’s legacy fueled demands for universal suffrage (left), while Republican free-labor ideals (right) echoed similar calls for economic opportunity.

Why the Convergence?
Manchester as a Crucible: Manchester’s industrial squalor, exposed by Peterloo, Engels, and Gaskell, and its reliance on slave cotton, made it a focal point for critiquing exploitation. Douglass’s visits amplified this, linking slavery to worker oppression, appealing to both socialist and capitalist reformers.

Moral Universalism: Justice for the working poor or enslaved transcended ideology. Engels and Marx saw systemic flaws in capitalism, Republicans saw slavery as a market distortion, and abolitionists like Douglass saw both as moral failures. This shared goal—human dignity—created overlap.

Pragmatic Alliances: In Manchester, abolitionists and reformers collaborated across class and ideology. Chartists (left) and liberals like Cobden (right) supported Douglass, as did Gaskell’s Unitarian circle, showing practical alliances for shared causes.

Modern Perspective on the Irony
Today’s left-right divide—socialism vs. capitalism—crystallized later, with Marxism and laissez-faire economics becoming more rigid. In the 19th century, these ideologies were less binary, allowing figures like¹ Douglass to bridge them. The irony lies in how both sides, now polarized, once shared a moral impulse to fight oppression, whether through revolution (Engels/Marx), reform (Gaskell), or free markets (Republicans). This convergence highlights that justice for the oppressed can unite disparate ideologies, a lesson muddied by modern political tribalism.

The irony of left-wing socialists and right-wing Republicans converging on justice reflects a shared moral outrage against exploitation, amplified in Manchester’s industrial and abolitionist context. Engels and Marx’s socialism, Gaskell’s reformist empathy, Douglass’s abolitionism, and Republican free-labor ideals all targeted systemic wrongs—worker poverty or slavery—despite differing solutions. This historical fluidity shows that “left” and “right” can merge when human dignity is at stake, a dynamic less visible in today’s polarized discourse.

(The left has no more dignity. Their psyches are so broken by the cabal, white coat sick care, and horrific programming of satanic social media regarding gender, that they are suicidal)

For deeper exploration, see Douglass’s My Bondage and My Freedom (1855), Engels’s The Condition of the Working Class in England (1845), or Gaskell’s Mary Barton (1848).